tv On the Record With Greta Van Susteren FOX News October 24, 2014 11:00pm-12:01am PDT
fe itself. [chuckles] i doubt anyone'll even notice. leading the pack in motorcycle insurance. now, that's progressive. call or click today. [ roars ] man. that's it for this. fair, balanced, and unafraid. here's comes greta. they are the lone wolves of terror. >> in the animal world you have packs of wolves, and you also have individuals that hunt alone. >> radicalized and hell bent on murder. >> terrorism came to my front door and took my son. >> brown jumped out of the car and shot at him ten times. >> in canada there were two he lone wolf attacks in two days. one soldier run over by a jihadist and another shot at the doors of parliament. >> and the debate rages. is it murder? workplace violence or terrorism? >> the idea at the ranch was to start a mujahedin training camp.
>> he stated decided to fight. >> they're completing operating outside of the cell structure. >> now from studio j at fox news headquarters, here is greta van susteren. the threat of lone wolf attacks at the forefront of everyone's mind. new threats to the homeland as well as recent attacks in canada have everyone on alert, but lone wolves turn terrorists are nothing new. chief intelligence correspondent catherine herridge took a look at their dangerous history. >> lone wolves, by and large, are individuals that are inspired idealogically, but may not have a formal connection to a terrorist organization. >> frank was the director of the homeland security policy institute at george washingtonn university. he has researched the very dangerous phenomenon of lone wolf terrorists.
>> that's the hard nut to crack here. >> absolutely. there is no linkage of information. >> first time i remember really discussing lone wolves is with the so-called unibomber, ed kazinski. timothy mcveigh was one of the first so-called lone wolves. the d.c. sniper, that is clearly a lone case. >> in 2002 the beltway sniper attacks terrorized the nation's capital. >> i was working at the white house and & counterterrorism issues.
it clearly had a significant psychological affect. >> this man nation of islam member john alan mohammed along with his accomplice 17-year-old lee boyd malveaux, shot 13 people from a chevrolet caprice in the d.c. area in 2010. >> the scene actually lifted so that mohammed or malvo were able to crawl into the trunk and shoot without ever leaving the vehicle. >> clearly john alan mohammed was idealogically motivated. >> mohammed wasn't a member of a terrorist organization, but he was motivated by his hatred for america. after the two were captured in october 2002, malvo testified the plan was to kill six whites a day for a month. as for malvo himself, he drew these extremist sketches while awaiting trial. today the internet has become indispensable for radicalizing lone wolves. >> it is a very positive side to the internet and it also connects, unfortunately, the very dark corners of the web.
>> there are ominous clouds gathering in your horizon. >> reporter: an march, the american-born cleric, inspired countless numbers of people to violent jihad through his on-line sermons. >> america as a whole has turned into a nation of evil. >> he downloaded more than 1 00 hours of al alahi sermons and on may 14, 2010, he heeded the call. these security camera images show him just before the tack and taking out the knife before being tackled by a security guard. >> this was a young woman who was inspired idealogically on the internet and acted on her views. >> chowdry wasn't the only
individual who was inspired on-line and then acted as a lone wolf. >> at the top of the list is nadal hasan. >> army major nadal hasan was a loner looking for religious guidance. by chowdry, he was inspired by al alahi, and he sent the cleric 18 emails. >> the importance of people like alahi is that it solidifies people to believe that they are right. >> it helps give you the justification. >> you're not really a criminal. you're not a murderer. >> at some point he turned into a lone wolf. he bought an nh 570 pistol and a large amount of ammunition. on november 5th, 2009, he opened fire on fort hood, killing 13 and wounding 30 others. >> nadal hasan was clearly idealogically motivated. it was an act of jihadist-based terrorism. >> reporter: now locked up in the disciplinary barracks at fort lechbl worth, kansas, he awaits his death sentence. >> is it workplace violence?
of course, but it's more than that. >> the threat of lone wolves is constantly evolving. including this man who -- the tsarnaevs who brought terror to the boston marathon bombing in 2014. >> whether or not they are genuine lone wolves or whether or not they did receive some guidance and training in chechnya is unknown at this point. >> and most recently attan knoll abandon who changed his name and beheaded a former co-worker in moore, oklahoma, and the terror group isis has put out a call for lone wolves to attack. >> they're playing a psychological war. we have to call them for what they are. rats. >> joining us is former u.s. attorney general and former federal judge mike mukasi, catherine herridge, correspondent, and mark, director at george washington university public policy institute.
welcome. they're not getting specific directions for somebody to go to it, but recently with isis there's been a call to people to do this, but it is more of the sort of ideology out there, and everyone sort of says, you know, they're doing it in the name of the ideology without a specific direction. >> what we're seeing is part of an ongoing reporting here at fox news channel over the last five years. >> this is really a movement and a set of ideas. it's not something that you can drone out of existence. you have for really deal with the ideology first. when people are inspired to act, these self-starters, the term lone wolf, it's not a bad term, but i agree with the judge because very few of these people can do this without some kind of support network, whether it's a support network with physical help, like explosives or weapons, or whether it's idealogical support to give them that confidence that they can go forward with a mission. >> frank, there's a difference between someone, for instance, the underwear bomber who got some training in temz of obviously it didn't work out too well on that airplane, but, i
mean, he is some specific training and direction. it seems like what happened in canada, it's like -- i don't see, you know, no mosque or no certain group or some radical said here's your vest, your suicide vest or here's your gun. it's a little different. >> it's early on in terms of the investigation itself, but you're right. the terrorist threat comes in various shapes, sizes, and forms. obviously given that there are thousands of westerners fighting along side isis in iraq and syria today, those that get actual training and expertise, whether it's in improvised explosive devices or the like will be a great threat from a potential to cause catastrophic attacks, but the reality is that there are going to be many that don't go overseas, that won't hit a trip wire, that won't have that training, but, unfortunately, they can still cause harm. if you look at what happened in canada this week, not only the shooting yesterday, but also just people mowing soldiers over, you also saw an incident
in jerusalem. >> i believe this started in between, which is the selection of the u.s. military as the target, and a canadian military. >> the reason that's important is because these are symbol that is have weight. >> focus on the armed forces and focus on really telling people that you can't be protected by the people who are supposed to
protect you. >> stay with us. coming up, four murders on two coasts. ali mohammed brown said he did it in the name of jihad. it in the name of jihad. but is he a lo♪ [safety beeping] ♪ [safety beeping] ♪ [safety beeping] ♪ the nissan rogue, with safety shield technologies. the only thing left to fear is your imagination. ♪ nissan. innovation that excites.
>> just line the lone wolves in canada, they've had a long -- ali mohammed brown is one of them. in the early morning hours of 2014, a livingston, new jersey, resident was found shot to death in the family's jeep. the suv had been abandoned here at the ron jolin apartment complex in west orange, new jersey. home for the summer after his freshman year at the university of richmond in have a vashg the popular student and lacrosse player had been shot eight
times. >> when brendan's body was found, it was collapsed into the floor of the passenger seat. >> pulitzer prize nominee mark deano is a veteran reporter for new jersey star ledger newspaper. >> this crime that happened here is shocking in its location to many people. >> i never thought not in this area that something so horrific could have happened. >> reporter: it was on the athletic field at seton hall prep school where brendan had attended high school that i met up with his grieving parents michael and allison. brendan had spent the evening at a friend's house in west orange that fateful night and texted his mother that he was on his way home. >> what time did you get the text? >> 11:32. >> four hours later the police knocked on their front door. >> i just could see on his face when i think i grabbed him and
said no, no, not brendan. he said, yeah, it's brendan. he was murdered. >> but why would anyone want to kill brendan tevlin? >> he was just a brave young man, a friendly young man. he enjoyed school. he enjoyed his athletics and sports. he was such a good, young fellow. >> the murder of brendan tevlin had the police baffled. >> they didn't know what happened. they didn't know -- it was in a very nice neighborhood. the viciousness of it, they couldn't figure it out. >> reporter: but what no one knew was that a self-proclaimed armed jihadist had taken refuge in a wooded area surrounding the multi-million dollar homes of west orange. >> it's a beautiful area. it's very scenic. you're on the mountains of west orange and have incredible views of manhattan. >> living in two makeshift camps behind the ron jolin and the near cris crest ridge apartments was 29-year-old ali mohammed
brown. brown is a convicted sex offender with direct ties to a terror camp and radical islamists in the pacific northwest. >> according to police, there was some stuff in the jihadist notebook about hiding among the rich. you hide among the rich, the police will never find you. >> reporter: no one knows how, but on june 29th he somehow made his way to pount pleasant beach some 60 miles from west orange. >> he attempted to carjack a man outside of the green planet coffee shop. he pulled the guy out of the car at gunpoint, jumped in the car, and realized he couldn't drive a stick shift. when he left that scene, obviously abruptly, he left some kind of incriminating evidence there. went to a stop and shop and used the bathroom there to change, and, again, left the bag behind with some incriminating evidence. >> reporter: brown was caught on a security camera at the time stop and shop where he left behind the bag with a .9
millimeter magazine and some fingerprints. when he later returned to west orange and robbed a man at the crest ridge apartment police combed the area looking for the assailant. >> that's when police began to search that ridge up there and they apprehended him then. >> police arrested him and it was then that brown made a stunning confession. he said he had picked brendan evlin at random at this intersection as he waited at a traffic light. he said he murdered him in the name of jihad. brown had pulled in behind him with two other men. >> brown jumped out of the car, went to the passenger side, and simply opened fire on him and shot at him ten times.
>> tevliin's murder was a just kill, unquote as payback for the united states involvement in the middle east. >> he has made statements saying that he was doing this as revenge for what's going on in iraq and syria and afghanistan. >> in our opinion, he is a murderer, and whether down the road the law enforcement comes to the conclusion that he is involved, it's something bigger, i figure the truth will come out. >> on august 4th, authorities announce the arrest of brown and two accomplices. 19-year-old jeremy villigren and eric-year-old eric williams for the murder of erof brendan tevl. they are being held here at the essex county jail in newark. brown's jail was set at $amillion, and the other two are being held at $1 million each.
sdmrooits a complicated case, and they're still really working hard on it to find the whole truth to this. >> back with our panel. judge, these cases are actually quite easy to prosecute because they leave lots of clues behind or they're shot debt deed on the scene. the big challenge is to get them before they commit new crimes, and here with this young college student, this was so random. it wasn't like he was in the military and might be a possible target. totally random. >> the only way to do that is to gather as much intelligence about the imams, and the others who are spreading the message and the web sites that are spreading the message and rye to figure out who is tuning in to those and focus on those people. that's really the only way to stop it. >> catherine, as -- you do all the intelligence-gathering for us at fox news. are they aggressive? i assume they're aggressively doing this, but are they breaking a lot of the these stories before they get to the random shooting on the street? >> well, what you hear privately from investigators is two things. one that they feel that they are
somewhat hamstrung. >> by? >> by the rultz, by the understanding, that they're pulling back, and this is not been just only recently, but in the last five to eight years pulling back from doing surveillance at religious sites. they don't -- the fbi does not want to engage in that. they want to engage with the community. >> and it's -- but it's -- everyone who says weirdo things that happens to come from a mosque that's politically correct to go round them up without more? >> yeah, and it both judge mccasey and catherine hit an important point. at the end of the day it's the ideology. we do need to paraphrase it's not the economy, stupid. it's the ideology, stupid. how do we get around that? i mean, at the end of the day it's about unand under governed space. why yemen? why somalia? why the machine greb where all terrorists pop up? because they're under governed spaces. same with the internet. >> stand by. when authorities took a closer
welcome back to greta investigates. lone wolves of terror. our team traveled to washington state to investigatory crimes authorities say ali mohammed brown committed. >> it turns out brendan tevlin wasn't the only person ali mohammed brown says he killed for jihad. ballistics testing by new jersey authorities now link brown's .9 millimeter handgun to three previous homicides.
execution style murders that were committed on the other side of the country in seattle, washington. on the night of april 27th, 2014, 30-year-old leroy henderson walked home in the skyway section of seattle when he was murdered in a hail of ten bullets. one month later early in the morning of june 1st two men were murdered in the neighborhood of leshigm. >> terrorism came to my front door and took my son. >> dejuan anderson young's mother and his grandmother shelly shared memories of the young man. >> he was the sun that everybody wanted to have. he was just always wanting to learn new things, and he had a good work ethic. >> he was 11, he said i want to work. >> rather than asking for money, he would what can i do to earn money? i'll mow the grass. i'll, wash dishes. he didn't wait for opportunities to come to him. he created his own
opportunities. >> he just approached his teenage years. snoo his sexuality, and he came out at 14, and he told me that he was gay, and, you know, that was a rough time for him. >> after graduating high school in 2009, dejuan earned a bachelors degree in communications from the university of washington. in late spring 2014 dejuan had just land aid new job at a consulting firm and was growing his own web design business. >> he was just really looking forward to his future and the opportunities, and for his life to be cut so short, it just -- it's so sad. >> on the night of may 3 1st, 2014, his friend ahmed, a 27-year-old somali american offered him a ride home from the night clubs our place. he also offered a right to another man who according to reports he had met on a website.
that man was ali mohammed brown. >> several of his friends said that, you know, he just didn't look like he fit in with the crowd. dejuan ahmed and the third gentleman got in the car, and that was the last that they saw of them. alive. >> these charging documents state ali mohammed brown pulled out his . 9 millimeter handgun and essentially executed dejuan and ahmed while inside saied's vehicle. >> he is a terrorist, and for whatever reason, he was going to kill ahmed that night. wron if it was because he had a muslim name. he was gay. i don't know. dejuan was a bonus kill. >> in his 29 years ali mohammed brown left a trail of depraved
crime and violence. court documents obtained by fox news show mr. brown was charged with child rape before pleading guilty to three lesser counts of communication with a minor for immoral purposes. two mothers of his children filed for domestic violence protection with allegations strangulation and punching. one stated that in a fit of rage brown dropped my 1046 day-old daughter on the ground. our team went to seattle to look deeper into brown's past. david gomez -- >> in 2004 it was ali mohammed what we were looking at was the fundraising for support -- material support of terrorism. >> at the center of the investigation was this 20 x 20 foot barbershop from hell. brown hung out there during his teen years with his own ruben shumpert, a notorious convicted drug dealer. >> rupert shumpert was a prison
convert to islam. he learned to cut hair in prison. ruben was attempting to indoctrinate a lot of the youth in the area into radical forms of islam by showing them videos about the 9/11 hijackers, about al qaeda. >> i had a piece of that investigation that involved an imam at the mosque. rupert shumpert and others would attend that mosque, and sheikh, the imam, we sur veiled him going to veriesent cuts. >> he was a particularly vocal proponent of jihad. >> at the time the mosque was 500 feet away from the barbersh barbershop. >> we had reports that a father who took his son up there to get a haircut hears what's being said and drags his son out of there saying, um, no. this was supposed to be about a haircut, not a jihad.
>> on november 18, 2004 after two and a half year investigation, the barbershop was raided. >> members of the joint terrorism task force executed 19 search and arrest warrants and included among those people was to be arrested was ali mohammed brown. his two brothers and another co-conspirator on the financial institution for fraud. >> at the time of the raid, shumpert was already in jail for assaulting the owners of the restaurant below crescent kits wrrn no one, including brown, was charged with terrorism. >> they were convicted of fraudulently producing checks, depositing them in accounts, withdrawing the checks and then spending the money basically. >> but as we reread the 2004 indictment, brown's older brother karim claimed the money was to help our muslim brothers and sisters in the cause because you can't go to war broke. brown was sentenced to two years. >> the fbi conducted a very
authorize yes investigation and was unable at that time to prove that any of the monies had been sent overseas in support -- in had material support of terrorism. >> ruben shumpert pled guilty to gun and counterfeiting charges. in june of 2006 he roet wrote this 12-page letter to judge marcia asking for leniency in his sentencing. he claimed he was a changed man sighting his muslim faith and complained about fox news. >> he made a good case for the fact that he was not a bad guy, but he was, in fact, a bad guy. ruben shumpert decided to flee the jurisdiction of the court and travel to somalia where he wanted to fight with al shab ab. i think they realized their mistake when he didn't show up for sentencing and somebody looked at the file and said, oops, we forgot to get his passport. >> that's right. brown's barber friend ruben shumpert slipped out of the country to go fight with terrorists in somalia. plus, seeing how we found out brown may have attended this terror training camp built for
to fox news.com. the cohort of accused killer ali mohammed brown fled his barbershop in seattle and ended up on a battlefield in somalia. >> in november 2006 the seattle fbi received a phone call from war-torn somalia. it was fugitive ruben shumpert. ali hoe maumd brown's pal from the crescent cuts barbershop. former joint chichl task force agents david and david gomez remember that call. >> it was just a taunting type of phone call that your efforts failed. i win. i lose. i'm gone. you can't find me. >> you may have indicted and arrested me, but i'm here in somalia, and i'm fighting the good fight with the shabaab, and i intend on reigning down terror on you and your family.
>> reporter: two years later ruben was dead. >> ruben died in somalia in a missile attack. i believe it was directed by united states forces on a villa where he was living. >> one of the confirmations of rubingen's death came from shabaab itself in their publications where they eulogized him as a wonderful foreign fighter from america. >> brown was out on the streets getting arrested again and again. we confirmed he served 84 days of his two-year bank fraud sentence stemming from the rainier valley roundup sxwshgs we found more. david ruben remained certain about the radical motivation of the imam from the aub your bakra mosque.
>>. >> tim: only 500 feet from the barbershop. >> he was over here to raise money through the system of money transfer to fund them overseas and to recruit people to their cause, to actually go back to somalia, take up arms. >> the imam was finally arrested in seattle in late 2005 after returning from a trip to texas. >> as soon as we saw who he was meeting with in dallas, we thought, okay, you know what, enough. >> three months after shumpert disappeared, sheikh ibrahim was deported under his real name to kenya, he his country of birth. >> i'm glad we dealt with it in immigration court. i think people think that terrorism cases are just a field goal and a 10 yard line, and they're really not.
best thing is to get him off our soil and get him out of here and never let him come back. >> apparently he has been busy as the leader of united western somali liberation front. here he is in 2010 signing a peace treaty with the ethiopian prime minister. >> i wouldn't sign a peace treaty with a guy. mohammed was and remains i am 100% certain a national security threat to the united states of america. or to any country in which he resides zoosh and that's not all we found. back in 1999 a then 15 yirld ali mohammed brown may have tried to attend one of the earliest terrorist training camp on american soil in bly, oregon. >> this is poison. poison. you help your brothers. you help yourself. >> he was the origin spiration of the convert that is we started to investigate around 1998, 1999 with the james ujama case.
>> this is dog cry ranch. it was a dream of a seattle entrepreneur james ujama and radical cleric al masri. he was convicted in may 2014 on 11 terrorism counts, including some relating to this camp. he awaits sentencing in new york city. >> today the crusade is against islam, and they are led by the jews. >> james ujamaa enspiration came not from videos of al masri. he went to the mosque and was tutored by him in the ways of violent jihad, and then attempted to bring that back, that oshlg group of converts, some of whom stayed on and worked with shumpert in the crescent cuts case. they tried to set up that ranch. >> i believe that ali mohammed brown at some point traveled to bly, oregon, prior to his arrest for the financial institution fraud. >> they went down there, and shot some weapons at the ranch.
like a lot of things james did, there wasn't a big follow-through plan. we got the ranch. now what? >> at some point in the establishment and took a look at the facilities and basically determined that james ujama had done a poor job. >> that someone was aubeye hamsa seen here at the camp. he is now serve aing life sentence for his role in the oregon plot. >> over time i think, up, james ujama came to the realization that maybe this wasn't a good thing to pursue and came to assist the government in their prosecution of aub your hamsa and other individuals in new york. >> ali mi happened brown sits in a jail cell as authorities pour over his past life whereby is he a lone wolf terrorist, or a serial killer using islam as an excuse? >> coming up, should ali muhammad brown be charged with terrorism in addition to the murders? our panel is back next. new york state is jump-starting business with startup-ny.
an unprecedented program that partners businesses with universities across the state. for better access to talent, cutting edge research, and state of the art facilities. and you pay no taxes for ten years. from biotech in brooklyn, to next gen energy in binghamton, to manufacturing in buffalo... startup-ny has new businesses popping up across the state. see how startup-ny can help your business grow at startup.ny.gov
>> we're back with our panel. chief intelligence correspondent catherine harj and fraij, director of george washington university's homeland security policy. judge, mr. brown is facing three murder counts? state court in washington. one in new jersey. your former attorney general -- what do we gain if he is charged with some federal charge on top
of it? he has those. >> frankly not a whole lot. if they can tie that together and make it a murders in of aed terrorism he might conceivably get it in a federal court, but the effort given what has gone on up until now likely wouldn't be worth it. i don't think he gains very much. >> it seems like the american people want a terrorism charge on this even though he is facing these four murder counts, and the terrorism as a judge said really wouldn't give us much. the american people seem to want a federal terrorism charge in a lot of these cases. >> it sounds like in this case it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, kwaks blik a duck. it is terrorism. on top of whatever else it may be, obviously you've got a moefsh that seems to be idealogically driven. let me just -- i very much agree with judge mukasi, but there is the deterrent effect. if we don't treat it as a terrorism case, are we then giving free passes to future cases? i'm not suggesting that -- >> i guess if we had unlimited
resources i would be totally with you on that, but the judge will tell you that a lot of these prosecutors and fbi agents will say they're so taxed. i'm not sure that we have the luxury of, you know, going after them in so many different direction where's sdmroosh i don't disagree with that, but it's the deterrent effect that we need to be -- >> the key is though expose that threat that was covered in your excellent coverage, and that is the threat that leads all the way back to aub your hamsa and the training camp on the west coast, and that threat is militant islamist. >> why are we -- >> why are we finding it -- catherine, i guess when i see that threat, i think how many threats aren't we finding? >> right. what i come away from looking at that investigation is that if you look at this data set in a very neutral way and you do not pull out the religious thread, you have this rich bed of information and several investigative threads that take you from new jersey to a major terrorist figure.
not only in the u.k., but also in somalia. if you sort of pull away this veneer that there may be an extreme religious component, what you are left is just the bare bones of the facts and very few investigative leads, and that has the effect of undercutting our national security. >> greta, could i pick up on that point. most people aren't aware since 9/11 there have been over 80 jihadist terrorism plots in the united states. these are big numbers. these aren't onesy and twossies. >> those are the ones we've cat and -- >> attacks and we've prevent and he preetched. these are actual plots. these come from the congressional research service that did this analysis for the congress, and there were 70 sgaz of fep. there have been a handful since. this isn't a small number set of issues. this is a significant threat we're facing. >> it's been stepped up, judge. what happened in canada just, u know, in this past week. these attacks are being in north america least. >> the trouble is that we're --
the people who are leading these agencies are downplaying the significance of each of these, and downplaying the connection between them and militant islam. >> why would they do that? >> because osama bin laden is dead and jihad is alive. >> just to jump in here -- >> that's tough. that's -- >> this emphasis on the lone wolf or the lone actor, what we've seen in our reporting on this issue, is there's an emphasis to do that. that takes the individual and makes them kind of an isolated crazy, and it's ease where i to pretends it's an isolated individual acting on their own initiative that it is somehow part of a broader network, and what the reporting in this hour shows is that what happened in new jersey is, in fact, linked to a broader network, and part of that broader network is radical islam. >> panel, stay with us. coming up, multiple terror attacks in canada. is there any way to stop lone wolves like these. we'll be right back. [ hoof beats ]
i wish... please, please, please, please, please. [ male announcer ] the wish we wish above all...is health. so we quit selling cigarettes in our cvs pharmacies. expanded minuteclinic, for walk-in medical care. and created programs that encourage people to take their medications regularly. introducing cvs health. a new purpose. a new promise... to help all those wishes come true. cvs health. because health is everything.
we're back with our panel. a hot of fuss over what we call -- a lot of fuss over what we call the beheading in oklahoma. a disgruntled worker, an act of terrorism. people were upset when it was called workplace violence by some. >> the triggering event seems to have been something that happened in the workplace. the fact that the guy was led to behead somebody because he had studied that in his -- in his mosque apparently. it's very different from what you've got the in canada. and from what you've got in england. >> katherine, are the investigators, people doing this, are they frustrated? they don't have the tools, are their hands tied? why are we seeing these pockets around north america? >> what we hear from people privately is that they're frustrated because they feel
it's time for this country to have a real discussion about how much security and interference or investigation into the personal lives they want the government to take. like how much do you want the government in your stuff to prevent a terrorist back? >> as the judge mentioned earlier, you don't need a warrant to look through all the social media and to comb the internet. >> you don't need a warrant, but people have to understand that if they don't want the government in all of their communications, then they have to accept a certain level of risk. the bar is only going to be so high, and part of living the way that we do here in the united states is that there may be lone wolf cases that get through the net. >> frank, every single one of these cases, if we go back, people arrested for terrorism charges, you can see the writing on the wall. they were all saying the same thing. almost for political correctness reasons we don't -- and for civil rights reasons, we don't dare go near them until after they've committed a murder. >> we've got to hit the
ideology. that's got to be the primary target. expose it, unpack its hypocrisy. remind people in terms of what it is they're committing. >> you can also authorize some more aggressive tactics of the sort that are used, for example, in narcotics operations. what you get people in under cover. you get people to act if a proactive sort of way, to substitute that for the real drugs and give disinformation and so on. i think that law enforcement is very reluctant to do that because people are -- you're at the borderline with religion, and people don't like getting into that. we may have to get further along in that direction if we're going to crack this open. >> let me -- the bureau does get there. the whole objective is to get there before the bomb goes off. left of boom, and it's intelligence driven. >> we've seen bodies littered. >> absolutely right. but the bureau's had a number of cases where they're being then accused of -- >> entrapping -- >> entrapment, this, that, and
the other thing. many jttf cases. that gets to the risk question that you were discussing. it's a multi faceted approach. we've got to continue to apply pressure overseas. if they're looking over their shoulders, they're not plotting attacks. we have to look at intelligence sharing. what was foreign and domestic is becoming blurred. you've got the bridge figures, people hanging out in yemen but influencing people the world over. then the investigationto er ter investigatory piece and exposing ideology for what it is. >> it seems we're hearing more of it now. >> there's more now, but in the last six weeks alone, there have been at least three intelligence bulletins warn being retaliation and attacks -- warning about retaliation and attacks by isis here in the united states and will also with our allies. that's not an accident. >> panel, i've got to thank you very much for joining us. >> you're welcome. >> thanks for being with us for
coming up on "red eye." are zombies getting lazy or just tired of chasing people around on foot? inside the undead's new plan to finally catch up to their human counterpart. plus, in what cities does the vice president love to take extra long naps? >> miami and salt lake and i can name many others. think about it. i genuinely mean it. >> and finally, the giant, evil, rubber duck is back. this time terrorizing the ingnaw sent people of -- innocent people of shanghai. one father heeds his daughter's warning seconds before the beast devours him whole. none of these stories on "red eye" tonight. >> that's a shame. now let's welcome